All Beliefs are Welcome Here!
With the recent emergence of evangelical christianity in the United States, the rise in fascism and hate groups across the US and Europe, especially within Pagan circles, the increased use of concentration camps of migrants and family separation policies, and the legal limitations on women's bodies and choices, are we, as a non-christian community and vulnerable demographic, afraid that evangelicals and lawmakers will turn on Wiccans and Pagans in a manner that will mimic the Burning Times, World War II, or worse?
I've studied as an anthropologist. I'm not doing this for work, class, publishing, or fame. I'm curious about the current attitudes in our neck of the woods. I'm curious if anyone else is as afraid as I am.
Thanks in advance,
UPDATE: I'd like to thank all of the participants in this thread who contributed to the discussion. Your responses here have been fascinating, to say the least, to read and ponder and to provide a somewhat decent perspective of current attitudes within this particular group of Pagans. I appreciate your ability to stay on topic, mostly, and to be kind, caring, and respectful to fellow Pagans. Thank you.
To those who were not the aforementioned adjectives, please know and understand that we are all Pagan here and that regardless of political or religious beliefs/paths, or ability to troll, we must stand strong to protect each other. Otherwise, we're no different from those warring christian tribes who do, in fact, hate us. Thanks again to everybody who participated.
Replies are closed for this discussion.
You're worried about sharia law?
Muslims are less than 1.5% of the US's population.
Bit of a bogeyman under your bed than a realistic thing to fear, don't you think?
You should be more worried about the Sharia Law of the Christians Evangelicals of this country who would support a liar, adulterer, criminal, traitor and conman and the antithesis of all their beliefs and not Muslims.
I think she's talking about Bill Clinton.
still living in the past, Dave?
I think you're greatly mistaken if you don't think this is a potential real future threat. You are talking about the Evangelical Christians, which are more and more becoming an minority within the U.S., although, I know some Evangelicals, and while they have strong rooted beliefs in which certain groups of people are condemned sinners no matter what... I've yet to have any of them try to lynch me because of my religion, ethnicity, or whatever else. And, I've not heard any stories in the News lately about a group of Evangelical Christians beheading or stoning to death, or at the very least giving 20 floggings to, someone they believed to be a witch, much less someone who practices to Paganism/Wiccan, etc.
25% of the entire worlds population, however, is Muslim. That number just continues to grow. Christianity AS A WHOLE, is believed to be at 33% of the world's population. That includes; Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, etc. And a tiny small portion of these people have evangelical beliefs.
If you're going for the more extreme evangelical beliefs in the Christian community in the United States, you're looking at roughly 5-7% of the entire U.S. Population. The worst CHRISTIANS I've seen in this country in all my years of breathing are the Westboro Baptists, but they are just a bunch of backwoods hillbilly bible thumpers who, at best, verbally attack those who are in pain already. And at worst, impregnate their sisters.
But yes, I am worried about Sharia Law. Because they DO kill and wage wars against other religions, religious beliefs, sexuality, etc. PRESENT DAY! When Christians in this country start bringing back murders based on religion and/or the idea someone may be a witch - and putting it into law, then I will be worried about Christians.
Honestly, I don't think I am the one worried about a Boogeyman under my bed.
What baffles me is that you're asking if we're worried about a supposed threat. But anyone that doesn't jump on "Yes I am terrified of Donald Trump and his lackey Christians!" bandwagon here is being put down as being unrealistic.
Boogyeman = "I think these people are going to hurt me!"
Real Threat = "These people actually WOULD hurt me if they got their hands on me!"
Child trafficing is modern day slavery, sponsored on behalf of the Goon Squad
Katrina, why do you think Sharia Law is a valid threat in the USA?
Evangelicals have been killing abortion clinic workers and burning abortion clinics. You HAVE heard of those, right?
Muslims are not 25%. The world has 7 billion plus people on it. There are about 1 billion Muslims. That's less than 15%. There are 1 billion Catholics, half a billion other Christian flavors, 1 billion Hindus, and about half a billion Buddhists. The rest are animists or other religions. I think you're getting anxious about nothing.
There are one billion Muslims in the world. How many are FOR Sharia law? How many are fundamentalist? If all of them were, we'd be in a lotta trouble now, wouldn't we be? 1 billion people acting up?
Nope, we're not. The hardliner fundamentalists are a minority in their own religion as well. Loud, violent and make the headlines, but a vast majority? Not even close.
Islam and Muslims are not what bring about "Sharia Law"...
What folks are concerned about is an American version of Sharia Law--lowered education standards (which as been implanted for over three decades now), subjugation of women via removal of their rights and the weakening of laws that protect women), and which seems possible if our government continues under right wing control; and the introduction of laws based on religious doctrine.
It's already happening... The anti-abortion movement, and the lack of renewing laws that hold men accountable for abuse, rape, and other insidious acts against women... All in the name of Christianity.
It's not related to Islam presence in the US, necessarily... An American prototype of Sharia Law is well underway.
That's cool. Let's just pick and choose our supposed threats.
Evangelicals (Let's point out it's 1-2 crazy people here and there, but there isn't a damn high court deeming the killings/burning of these clinics to the ground as justified by law, ok?). Let's start being worried about every group out there, actually. White women have killed plenty of their own children (not talking on abortion), so, let's be terrified of white women because every last one of them are infanticiders. Black men have shot up neighborhoods killing bystanders in their gang wars... well, okay, all black men are now gang members who kill people in the streets. It was Germans who were Nazis and murdered countless Jewish people, disabled people, and more... Let's fear everyone of German Decent, they are clearly all bad. White men tend to be the majority of perpetrators in Mass Shootings (I am sure you probably already think all white men are bad) but... be careful, if you pass a white man, he's most likely on his way to shoot up a school or movie theater. Oh, and this line of thinking is why in the past witches were burned at the stake. Uhm, because there have been BAD practicers who have done bad things, whether out of revenge, or because they were simply evil. Look at the brujas out of Mexico, super rare, especially in today's world but doesn't mean that human sacrifices have never happen. So, guess we should be afraid of our own kind, too.
Along this line of thinking, I will admit I am not much better considering the Sharia Law bit, but I also don't think ALL muslims are the problem, but that population of Muslims who are for Sharia Law is increasing daily. And that's why I attempted to refrain from saying "Muslims" outside of the population %, as Muslims aren't specifically the issue, it's the laws they are attempting to enact that are dated and barbaric.
Also, let's not forget that Muslims do not believe in Abortion, either unless of course a man wants to forcefully abort a woman's child then he can, but as for the woman being able to choose? Yeah, not allowed. In fact, for all that is toted about how liberal and progressive it is to support the Muslim religion, they are more extreme in their conservative views than most Conservative non-Muslim Americans are.
I will state it again, I am more afraid of Sharia Law than I am a bunch of bible thumpers. I am more afraid of people who are, right now, killing people because of they are not of the faith in Western countries (and in their majority countries even under the protection of their own Government Laws) than I am of people who are not currently protected by any Laws. Again, when any country in this world starts allowing and putting into law the acceptance of slaughter of innocent people because they are NOT Christian, then... I will be afraid of Christians. But much like you're unafraid of the "tiny" population of Muslims who are for Sharia Law, I am unafraid of the tiny portion of Christians (evangelists or otherwise) who may or may not want to bring back the times of "burning the devil worshipers".
On that note: the top of the page "All Beliefs are Welcome Here!"
I'm afraid of the current US political climate as a human being.
"are we, as a non-christian community and vulnerable demographic, afraid that evangelicals and lawmakers will turn on Wiccans and Pagans in a manner that will mimic the Burning Times, World War II, or worse?"
I still think it's paranoid scizophrenia, present tense.
From the LA Times:
Reporting from Washington — President Obama suggested at a town hall event Wednesday night that one way to shave medical costs is to stop expensive and ultimately futile procedures performed on people who are about to die and don’t stand to gain from the extra care.
In a nationally televised event at the White House, Obama said families need better information so they don’t unthinkingly approve “additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care.”
He added: “Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller.”
There’s an interesting contradiction here. According to the pro-choice perspective, it’s outrageous for the state to interfere in a woman’s decision to terminate a pregnancy. But it’s pragmatic and reasonable for the state to consider terminating a person, if some money can be saved.
It's the party of Jim Crow (DEMOCRAT)
Repeat the mistakes of the past, and you will be doomed to repeat them in the future
It's just a reinvented wolf, in sheeps clothing