I took a break from interacting with most pagan communities, I now re enter in a state of shock and horror, what have we become, mothers, killing their children in the womb while others look on screaming women's rights, what about the rights of the children, our children being taught they there are more than 2 genders, as we look on with complacency, because we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, American pagans, your home is being invaded, your liberal leaders are lying to you, leading you down a path of destruction, and slavery, and yet we do nothing but fight and squabble amongst ourselves.

I joined Paganism because it was supposed to be the path of the enlightened, the learned, the wise, we have become the laughing stock of the world, the butt of the religious joke. No longer are we the wise, we have become a bunch of groups of angry children, and adults with mental disorders, and those that do not fall in line are labeled racist!

It is with a sad heart that I look on my brother and sisters and again ask what have we become!?

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"What have we become"? 

Obviously something you don't agree with.  That doesn't make the others wrong.  Didn't you learn from paganism "to each their own"?  To have to deal with someone trying to push their moral attitude as superior to anyone else is not why many people converted to paganism.

In what world, that's kinda close to wiccan dogma! Actually it says do what you want as long as you're not causing harm, abortion Is definitely harm, forcing lies down impressionable children again harm!

As for paganism no such thin exists abortion is in most cases a sick twisted practice, against nature, and believing in more than 2 genders is delusional at best, and forcing that belief on my child, makes it my bussiness, and in real pagan traditions these people would be held accountable for their actions, it is no better than the very Christians you fear forcing their beliefs on pagan peoples. just something think on ik you won't change but these issues are at their core against paganism. 

that's kinda close to wiccan dogma

If you're Wiccan.  I'm not Wiccan.  Lotta people here aren't Wiccan, so sorry, those rules don't apply to me or anyone else who isn't Wiccan.  So your statement is worthless.  And then WIccans don't have to believe what you believe - that a fetus is a "child" or whatever you think it is - that can come to harm.  Again, your opinion is simply that, your opinion and doesn't have to apply to anyone else.

abortion is in most cases a sick twisted practice, against nature

Wrong.  Guess you never heard of "miscarriage"?  That's a "natural" abortion, so abortion is natural.  Animals in nature have been found to reabsorb their fetuses or eat their young when under stress.  That's natural too.  You really want to go there?

 forcing that belief on my child, makes it my bussiness

Why don't you let your kids make up their own minds instead of forcing YOUR ideas on them?

Lol and I'm not wiccan but as I said you threw the wiccan dogma out. I'm Celt and I have studied lots of other pagan traditions, shit even Satanists ar against harming children and my argument is worthless huh you don't know my opinion I was stating fact, fetuses feel pain respont to light and sounds, so again, fact, they are alive and human

As far as the argument miscarriage, so murder and natural causes are one in the same so hot damn let's let the murders out.

And to your third argument it's called parenting, the act of molding children into decent productive members of society, I'm all for letting kids make up there own mind, but it's our job to teach them murder, rape stealing, and the like is wrong, that's a big problem with our society today parent's don't want to parent so I guess you saying don't teach boys that raping a girl is wrong just let them make their own mind up on that because what you say equates to the same thing

Lol and I'm not wiccan but as I said you threw the wiccan dogma out. I'm Celt and I have studied lots of other pagan traditions, shit even Satanists ar against harming children and my argument is worthless huh you don't know my opinion I was stating fact, fetuses feel pain respont to light and sounds, so again, fact, they are alive and human

Well, I guess you've studied some traditions but not much embryology.

Fertilized eggs, blastocysts, embryos and fetuses are not "children" any more than an acorn is a tree or an egg is a chicken.

Sure, they're alive and human but so what?  So is a brain dead body and we pull the plug on them.

Know why?  Because we know without a brain the person is gone.  Without a brain, it's just a biochemical machine thumping away.

What's the real important qualifier?  Are they a person?  Without a brain - and BTW, at the time most abortions take place, the fetus doesn't have a sufficient nervous system much less a frontal cortex - to register pain.  It reacts, but much like a plant does.  

So, no brain, no person.  No person, no murder.

Parenting is a big responsibility.  But many parents are morons, reproducing doesn't increase anybody's IQ from what it was before they had kids.  So some parenting is good, other parenting not so good.

And you blathering about rape when I didn't even mention it is just your running off on a drama queen tangent.  Stick to the subject, why don't you?

Do people "dehumanize" brain dead bodies when they pull the plug?

How much jail time do want the grieving families to serve since they "dehumanized" their loved ones?

Yeah dems, did this with slaves to dehumanizing them so they could justify owning people and torturing them 

Yeah dems, did this with slaves to dehumanizing them so they could justify owning people and torturing them 

Dems?  You mean Democrats?  Yeah, they sure did.  They were the conservatives back in the 1800s.  But you knew that, right?  LOL

Much like how anti-choice people dehumanize pregnant women and insist they're just incubators and what they want and need is irrelevant since the fetus is now more important than them, right Conal?

Lol well now you've been reduced to insulting me, well since  rape and murder are equally abhorrent I used it as a point of saying you can not, not teach your kids that vile actions are acceptable  no matter what they are!

As far as pulling the plug that's situation the person is dead their body just don't know it, so again, not even on the same level.

No matter how you try to justify, or how many insults you throw at me, I will not find it ok to abort a baby because the woman don't wanna! 

I will agree, definitely people out there the should not be allowed to procreate, (and no this is not a jab at you, while I disagree with you, you seem to be an intelligent person) 

Lol well now you've been reduced to insulting me, well since  rape and murder are equally abhorrent I used it as a point of saying you can not, not teach your kids that vile actions are acceptable  no matter what they are!

Where have I insulted you?  Well that's you going off on a tangent.  I didn't bring up rape at all.

As far as pulling the plug that's situation the person is dead their body just don't know it, so again, not even on the same level.

It's exactly on the same level.  They can keep the body going for decades.  Which they have if you read the case studies on Karen Anne Quinlan or Terri Schiavo.

No matter how you try to justify, or how many insults you throw at me, I will not find it ok to abort a baby because the woman don't wanna! 

OK, but you don't get to make that choice for someone else.

I agree. It is sad. A total disrespect for the gift of life that we have been given

The biggest joke is how these hypocrites whyne about children being "ripped" from the arms of their parents @ the Border, who engage in child abusive and criminal behavior, hiding like parasites behind asylum laws. 

While they rip them from their mother's womb by the millions.

There is nothing more fascist and Neo Nazi than that, right out of Mengele's playbook. They have no idea who they are killing.

Privacy, if it were appropriate to kill a family member in private, I suppose that lets them off the hook.

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