Uncertain about a few things... could use some clarifications and help

Not really sure where to start, so I thought I would kind of jump into it.


Asatru and Odinism seem very interesting and promising, and I look forward to going through those in further details (so any books that you would recommend would be nice), but I also came across something that I wanted to bring forward to see what are your thoughts on it and where you stand personally with the practices themselves:


In this case I am talking specifically about the ADF (or Ár nDraíocht Féin) which is a druidic order essentially which doesn't necessarily follow a Celtic pantheon, but Indo-European hearth cultures. Unlike the Wiccans however, they seem to be more... structured in regards of keeping these cultures separate. So I thought I would ask what are your thoughts on ADF style of worship and ritual approach to the Nordic standings as of oppose to Asatru and Odinism.

My next thing I wanted to ask real quick is about magic or witchcraft in general, which I believe goes by the name seiðr I believe my father called it.


Anyways, as oppose to my mother's more... Wiccan practices I suppose, which I don't fully agree with personally, my father doesn't like seiðr in general. This is primarily because my father became a Catholic so that my siblings and I could go to a French school. Anyways, I wanted to know your general thoughts on magic in Asatru and Odinism in general whether or not you practice it in any shape way or form.


I am going to quote something here, partially because I want to get to know anything and everything that I can about this before simply jumping into it, and I would like to see if you agree or disagree with the author of this article:


"Óðinn himself, the Allfather and King of the Gods, was justly accused of ergi or unmanliness because of his practice of seiðr or women's magic, as learned from the goddess Freyja. We are not certain what it is about seiðr that made it "unmanly" for a man to practice the art: it could be anything from the idea of cowardice as a result of being able to harm your enemies through magic rather than in open battle, to overt sexual rituals involving the seiðr-practitioner as the passive sexual partner, or even as the passive homosexual partner. Ynglingasaga explains:

Oðinn kunni þa íþrótt, er mestr máttr fylgði, ok framði siálfr, er seiðr heitr, en af þuí mátti hannvita ørlog manna ok óorðna hluti, suá ok at gera monnum bana eða óhamingiu eða vanheilendi, suá ok at taka frá monnum vit eða afl ok geta oðrum. En þessi fiolkyngi, er framið er, fylgir suá mikil ergi, at eigi þótti karlmonnum skammlaust við at fara, ok var gyðiunum kend sú íþrótt.

Óðinn had the skill which gives great power and which he practiced himself. It is called seiðr, and by means of it he could know the fate of men and predict events that had not yet come to pass; and by it he could also inflict death or misfortunes or sickness, or also deprive people of their wits or strength, and give them to others. But this sorcery is attended by such great ergi that men considered it shameful to practice it, and so it was taught to priestesses (Ynglingasaga 7)"

Anyways, that is pretty much it for now. Hope you all have a wonderful day.

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Thanks I'll be sure to go through the links you have provided me. It is very much appreciated.

"In regards to ADF worship with Nordic gods, I have met many people who do so."


ADF take it's cues from Issac Bonewitz ideas.  For better or worse.


"A lot of people from The Troth seem to double as ADF Nordic pagans."


I think a more accurate statement would be that the Troth is in only Norse National Organization that would and does take them.  I would not say that "a lot" of ADF folks are there but they are there.


"They tend to be a lot more ... liberal and universalist ... than I am in worldview. But whatever, I don't want to get into a sociopolitical argument here."


Raven Radio did a podcast on the subject, if folks want to get into it.  IMHO, the whole folkish vs. universalist issue is a Red Herring to artificially separate folks on the basis of an agenda. 

David what are your personal views and opinions with:


Asatru vs Troth vs Odinism vs ADF Nordic worshipings


What are some of the prime differences if there is any at all?

Much apples vs. oranges here.  But I'll give it a shot:


Asatru:  4 Bedposts with Dirk Malhing is my boilerplate dogma here.  Asatru is a tradition and practice within the Heathen umbrella. 


The Troth: Is an national organization dedicated to promoting Heathenry including the Asatru religion.  http://www.thetroth.org/


Odinism: I've not seen this well defined.  Most believe in all the same stuff as Asatruar.  Some use it as a distinguishing point that they are more folkish then others.  I'll yield this point to those who identify with it. 


ADF Nordic worshipings:The ADF Norse use the same worship structure as everyone else in the ADF.  They appreciate scholarly work but it's expressed in a much more eclectic and/or wiccan fashion.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ar_nDraiocht_Fein


Feel free to keep firing.

haha I plan on too, it helps that you are such a good sport though ;)


Next question, which one do YOU personal enjoy over the others and WHY?


I ask this quesiton particularly because eventually, if I find out that the Nordic path is the path I want to go due to my ancestry, than I want to be able to get various perspectives and their personal views and practices. I personally am a little more traditional in all the practices I've studied and have had the chance to follow at some point, so I do enjoy the more traditional approaches to things, but I also prefer sound based evidence (in this case archeological evidence) that would support that particular practice.


For example, a Wiccan Nordic practitioner might be more...well... ecclectic, I wouldn't want that personally. I would want something that was kind of like reconstructionalism but for the modern age to suit this time and the needs of the people but still adhering to the principles and disciplines to the ancient practices and beliefs, basically I want a religion that won't loose itself in terms of mixing and matching and the new age (not that there is anything wrong with that, just not my personal cup of tea).

I identify as Asatru.  I've been so for many years.  I am an officer in the Troth. The Troth doesn't dictate my religion but expect that folks self-id as within the Heathen umbrella. 


I don't believe that being eclectic is appropriate for Asatru religious practice because the worldview, culture, sociology and history effects the perspective and gets away from the lore too much.   But that is bordered by the need to bring the practice into the modern day (i.e. rule of law means trial by combat is a no go, etc). 

IMHO The issue of Ergi was much more relevant and meaningful when the rule of law was a mere suggestion and folks had to defend their stuff with force.  Thankfully those days are long gone.


These days if folks swing that way, I say, go nuts.  I've helped my wife do some Seith stuff and while I have no skill in it, I respect those who do.  It's not my bag. 


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