I've noticed and have experienced people dissing my beliefs or others....saying that they are wrong...or a scam....or something else....


If that's true WHY doesn't anyone stand up to teach? Its all title slinging "I'm a high" whatever of some sort of sect or circle or what have it. How do we know its even true that you are what you say you are and if it is why not stand up and teach the "uneducated"? instead of making them feel like crap and badgering them with negativity or saying "thats wrong!" and saying youre part of some secret organization and thats why they have to stay in the dark, OFFER INFORMATION! Not everything can be found on the internet and those of us without mentors have to do so that way so if we choose to believe what we find don't knock it unless you wanna correct it. Because really if you tell me whats wrong what am I supposed to do then? Go on a wild goose chase for the golden egg?



I'd like to ask the high priests and priestesses or any of you really to stand up and start teaching and quit knocking without anything to back your big shotting when the door opens. I'm sick of getting told how wrong I am or being told what is wrong without any substantial information to back it up.

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Well wolf I do have to agree with you on people downing others on there belife it is stupid to say only you are right but you cant know how I'm right. As for teching however I'm not the man you need to teach you as I my self have my own belifes in how things are set up and done and stand on my own with it. If that is what you want sure I'm down to teach however at everyturn someone will always stand to fight what I say and as I have no "holy" book or other sorce other then metatation or prayer few stand with me.
I'm not asking anyone to say "Hey this is the right way!" I just want people to stand up and put the information out there instead of telling everyone they're wrong but the right way is a secret. I'd love to hear your beliefs and experiences though! Maybe we could learn a little from each other =]

Hate to sound like a Yoda rip off, but - those who wish to make you feel like your in the dark truly doubt themselves. 


And titles are given not taken - if people have to tell you what their rank (or whatever the dank) is, because it's not apparent, then it doesn't mean anything to any way.  


I can only give you what I have experienced - the rest is all guess work. 

I totally agree! Thanks =] I'd love to hear what you've experienced, maybe it'll match up with what I've gone through!
I actually speak from experience when I say those things about religious fundamentalists and doctrinal traditionalists - I used to be one.


Yes it's true ...

When I was a teen I was a serious Christian fundamentalist - I honestly thought I had it right and that not only was Christianity the 'only' way but that I knew the real side of it. In short I was a horrible person who went through some life changing experiences - thank Odin - that woke me up to the dank whole of a life I had made for myself.

Apparently these types of people exist in all walks of religious and spiritual life - Pagan and Heathen alike. One really great term for them is "spiritual materialists". Sure we all get that way in certain aspects of life but the people who live that way every day, in every thing they do? Yeah ... that's what I mean.

My advice is this - use your critical thought in conjunction with your feelings, trust yourself and your experiences OVER doctrine every time. This doesn't mean doctrine is useless but it does mean that it takes a back seat .... and is probably metaphor rather than literal.

Lastly, never be afraid to stand up and say with confidence, after careful and deliberate consideration - BS!


My mother was a wise woman who didn't put up with nonsense.  One of the things she often said will stick with me all my days.


"If you have to tell me you are, you probably aren't."


As for the idea of people teaching....as painful as your experiences may have been, why do you think it wasn't "teaching"?  There are more way to teach then to stand at the head of a class room and lecture.  Likewise, there are more ways to learn then to sit and listen to someone else's experience.


There is a very common saying in pagan circles: "When the student is ready, the teacher will come."  This doesn't refer to a student reaching a given age and a teacher appearing on their doorstep.  Rather, it's talking about when the student is ready SEE the lessons that all around them, they will learn.


Finally, I for one am not going to spoon feed people. That's just not how I work since I find it a very ineffective means of teaching.  I expect people to work for and earn their understandings.  I've been known to drive people nuts asking them questions in the hopes that they will think things through for themselves.  More then a few probably think that I AM leading them on a wild goose chase.  These same people will be unable to see that I'm giving them the opportunity to LEARN.  Such is life.


Before you get all defensive when people question you, ask yourself what you are defending and why it needs to be defended.  If your ideas and/or practice are worthwhile they will stand on their own merits and be able to weather whatever comes against them; you won't have to defend them because you bee too busy living them.

Vig.: If your ideas and/or practice are worthwhile they will stand on their own merits and be able to weather whatever comes against them; you won't have to defend them because you bee too busy living them.



People live and defend them ALL the time.......all the time,because others question,try to understand,dont get it,even when they see what one does......to some ,frankly,its not enough....I look at it more as explaining,than defending.......
Agreed. To add to that though ...

I also think it's a good idea to have people question themselves - but also to make the distinction that it's better to question some ones metaphors rather than the persons experience in and of it's self.

That might be obvious but I thought it was relevant.
I really wouldn't worry about what they say.  I know it can be irritating though, I'm pagan with some New Age thrown, so I'm a target for the "fluffy bunny" attack.  They love to judge, letting stereotypes think for them, instead getting to know a person and being open minded.  But one thing I've learned about spirituality and magick is that they are a lot like computer programming, there is more than one solution to a problem.  Some ways of doing something may work better than others, but that doesn't mean that the other way is wrong.  I also think these people are basically on an ego trip and just want to feel special.  Unfortunately, you're gonna find that in every spirituality because everybody has an ego.  So I say if there is a person who just isn't willing to be open to possibilities, just walk away.  It's not like you have to associate with them.

The only good a forum like this does is separate the asshats from the good people.


The ONLY good?  You can't see any other benefit?  Such as the exchange of ideas, or thinking in new directions because of those ideas, or being exposed to the existence of given things they had previously been unaware of.  I wonder if you're aware of how "negative" you come across with that statement.


A person's forum experience is what they decide it is.  If they choose to give others power of them, it's probably going to be a "negative" experience.  Even more so if they go in with preconceived notions of what it's going to be like.


But if the person goes in seeing the forum experience as an opportunity to learn (not only from others but ABOUT themselves) and a tool for personal growth, they are going to do fine.  Not only will they be fine, but the forum will be richer for their involvement.


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