PAST HISTORY-Bundy Boys-ORE Militia Fed Bldg Standoff

No sooner did the roses and flowers wilt from the Pasasdena, CA Rose Parade and holiday festiviities subside that political shenanigans are brewing before Wash DC and Congress return to their abodes.

The news story of the Hammond family of rural Burns, eastern Oregon that had some of its members serve a short prison stint charged with arson years back (they claim they were burning invasive plant species on their property, but the Feds said otherwise). Burning any large scale fire in rural timber areas can go haywire. A fed judge ruled that the Hammond ex cons had to serve more time, this and claims the Hammond property is what the Feds want, had cells in local and national militia groups take up the cause of protests to free the Hammonds from more sentences.

A local wildlife refuge center building was/is occupied by sons from the infamous BUNDY family of Nevada that had their own saga with the Feds. Cells from the Idaho and other militia members have also joined in. The Bundy's are catcalling for a patriot's insurrection. Depending on the news source anywhere from 25 to over 50 activists broke into the refuge center armed, with plans for a longer term standoff.

In this election year, Donald Trump and other Republican Party candidates can make use of any militia seige as anti present administration propaganda. Pres Obama's executive orders on new gun laws are also being whipped up by the right wing as a spark to further anti gov antagonism.

Depending on where the standoff goes or if violence ensues, the loudmoth ranting calls of Donald Trump will be sludged back into focus. 

GOP Candidate Donald Trump as President, backs the killing of the families of terrorists by U.S. and allied forces.

Trump calls for the death penalty for anyone that kills a U.S. police or law enforcement officer.

Various militia members don't consider themselves as terrorists, but patriots or freedom fighters, and a splinter in the USA Republican Party also agrees with this or have backed various state secession schemes from the union. If any present militia or activists lead to violence or deaths in demos or seiges, terrorist is pretty broad definition. If law enforcement are killed, how extreme the Fed persecution of the family members of the terrorists or patriots? 

Remember that Donald Trump, as you rage at your rallies over new gun laws and encouraging a backlash by 2nd amend patriots and conservatives against the Obama feds and entire Democratic Party. Trump called for killing terrorist's families and death sentences for cop killers, let's see if that applies to those registed as Republicans, Libertarians, or conservative Independents.

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Ha ha, If only we could get rid of hell, then there would be no sins.

You know, going up against the state or federal judiciary is like saying to the big bad wolf guarding the chicken house: “Can you cut me in on your chickens? Ask the dealer at the card table,”Can you get me a better hand? Let's just say the deck is stacked against you when you go that route. You see, that is what we have a fucking constitutional process for, NOT to let the judiciary fuck all over us. NOT to let the emperor fuck all over us.

Somebody has to continue the fight against tax tyranny.

How do you know where your tax money is going? Most taxes are nothing but highway robbery and abuse of the tax payer....to keep the bloated, over grown, unsustainable state and federal oligarchies in business. Buying votes and keeping political machinery intact with government overemployment and union fascism. Paying taxes to support political opposition, salaries and benefits of government parasites, who want to live and retire off of the sweat of the asses of businesses. Many of these people don't pay any fucking taxes themselves. Many of the bottom feeders of the country get off tax free, about 50% of the population, in fact. Redistribute money to keep illegal aliens fed and healthy, (IN NEVADA) as well as all other kinds of dead weight.

No one is rebelling against prudent common sense forest management. There IS such a thing. Old growth forests eventually burn off. What do you do when an old growth forest is destroyed by a volcano or fires that occur naturally? Not to mention fucking arson.

You know what the problem is with the logging industry?? POLITICIANS Loggers never made laws, and policy. Yah, some sorry ass urban Harvard neophyte career politician knows whats best for your forests! If you believe that, then you got to believe in santa claus.

This process recycles itself over hundreds of years. Protecting spotted owls is a fake issue, as well as the tortoise issue, or some sorry ass fish swimming around in California rivers. Harass a fucking monk seal, and you get arrested. Harass another human, and you get laughed at.

Look, it costs money to lease land, and in many cases it is not cheap. People who do this have lots of costs involved in it, including the payments to the state and federal governments. Any improvements you make ultimately belong to the state.

These greedy bastards will try to take money from you any way they can, by stacking multiple taxes and demanding shares of your income, similar to what they call their bullshit grazing fees. They will take a percent of your revenue, and if you want to use their (OUR) land, that is what you must concede to. Most people don't have the guts to stand up to them.

When was the last time you walked on the wild side with a fucking desert tortoise?

Only he's not fighting tax tyranny, he's skipping out on a bill. One that he was paying for many years until he just stopped. Old timers can use social justice warriors for their cause but it's not going to pan out the way he had planned. Like I said, the law is in place. Why not challenge the land ruling instead of the tax ruling based on the law?

It's a government backed loan. Not a government loan. But maybe that's what got Bundy's attention to begin with (GOV)

But if the government (IRS) puts a lien on you, then there goes your loan payments, in many cases for a small business, which Bundy is nothing more than. And then there are the lending pirates some people call bottom feeders of the industry.

It's my impression, and correct me if I'm wrong, when you owe the "federal government" money, you owe it to the IRS> Who else?

"Why not challenge the land ruling instead of the tax ruling based on the law?"

That's an interesting question, but I would bet that it would be the same outcome as using the state to challenge the state, depending on who you're dealing with in there.

The land ruling could possibly be a constitutional challenge, (no challenge should be necessary) The land rule exists in it's current state because of the bastardization of the constitution pertaining to government land rights. One federal judge is not the same as all federal judges. I'm not even sure it's a judiciary issue, as much as it is an issue for those who want to restore the constitution back to it's originality. Many federal judges are the problem, instead of any solution. 

So it's an ideological paradigm shift that has to be reckoned with in the electorate itself, and I think too many voters are ignorant of the issue, just as they are ignorant of a lot of issues. That is how you end up with "judicial tyranny".

"What about intrinsic value?"

Intrinsic value can be an issue, for sure, but I would look at it on a case by case basis, and not a one size fits all. I do not maintain that intrinsic value has no value/

Yes humans are too numerous, says who? Humans are at the top of the food chain, to put it in simple minded terms. I actually concur with that, but what the hell are you going to do about it, without sounding inhumane, ha ha??

It may be a stretch to think humans can actually control the evolution of a species, when we are losing control of the evolution of our own species. So, I see humans as just another part of the evolution of species that is part of the law of nature. Not necessarily special just because they exist. But that goes for anything else, of course, on a case by case basis.

Terrorists are not the issue. It's the issue that counts, not the "terrorists". The terrorists just get the headlines because they are gangsters with their own agenda. That does not detract from the issue itself.

Go learn something about the issue, and forget about the "terrorists"!

 

 

 

According to Mother Jones:

Ammon Bundy runs a Phoenix-based company called Valet Fleet Services LLC, which specializes in repairing and maintaining fleets of semitrucks throughout Arizona. On April 15, 2010—Tax Day, as it happens—Bundy's business borrowed $530,000 through a Small Business Administration loan guarantee program. The available public record does not indicate what the loan was used for or whether it was repaid. The SBA website notes that this loan guarantee was issued under a program "to aid small businesses which are unable to obtain financing in the private credit marketplace." The government estimated that this subsidy could cost taxpayers $22,419. Bundy did not respond to an email request for comment about the SBA loan.

Any ruling that involves shutting down an industry in order to protect a fucking tortoise that has no value at all is plain fucking insane.

What about intrinsic value?  Or don't you believe a creature has an intrinsic value just being itself.  Not because of some value YOU place on it?

Humans have no value at all either.  There are 7 billion of us, knocking out a few million won't make a dent at all.

Evolution has provided for the extinction of species for billions of years. It's what they call natural selection. Since when do humans NOT become a factor in all of this, except for these "holier than thou" fucktard fascist judges who think they are gifts from the Christian heavenly statosphere?

The reason many species are going extinct is because humans are too numerous and are expanding into areas where these species live and crowding them out.  There's nothing "natural" about that.

They are terrorists plain and simple - They have seized US property plain and simple. The fact is that they should be dealt with extreme prejudice. I think socially we can't pick and choose acts of civil disobedience that please, and should call acts of terrorism exactly what they're.  

So you want another Waco?

So what's the status in Oregon?

The strategy of law enforcement seems to be to show Bundy and his followers that most local residents want them to leave, and that way avoid a confrontation. With the Hammonds voluntarily going to prison, Bundy's end-game is not clear. He has been using the occupation to speak out for more local control of public lands. Bundy said Friday that at some point he will accept Sheriff Ward's offer of an escort out of the refuge to assure safe passage. Bundy also floated the idea of "transferring what we are doing" to a group local of supporters. On Saturday, a convoy of more than a dozen pickup trucks carrying armed men arrived at the wildlife refuge. Some of the men carrying rifles told journalists they were there to help with security, The Oregonian reported.

Fire Chief claims to have caught FBI agents posing as militia at local armory. Resigns.

I think conservatives and liberals throw around the "traitor" accusation a bit to loosely. I don't like it when either does it.

The problem with finger pointing, is that it takes an objective and informed mentality to sort out the facts.

Yes, there is treason in some of the actions of liberals. Conservatives have their own issues, such as political correctness, and cowardice, but treason is not one of them. You can be a coward, and still not be a traitor.

Treason is one of the liberal trademarks...I agree with that entirely. 

When you start talking about rebellion, that is a two edged sword. There is good rebellion, and there is negative rebellion.

What history has taught us over and over again, is that the end result is the sustainability of a nation.

America is starting to look like the last 200 years of the Roman Empire

( he said she said)

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