Please post your experience if Clinton changed your mind.
 
I watched Bill Clinton give an incredibly good speech at the Democrat Convention last night, and it gave me pause.  His masterful rebuttal of the standard conservative talking points was clear, insightful, logical, reasonable, humorous and respectful; and it expressed the higher perspective that I've been looking for.
 
For many years, the contempt I held for Clinton kept me from fully appreciating his extraordinary talent for clarifying complex issues.  I'm not saying that he has changed my intentions in the voting booth, yet, but he certainly wiped away much of the smear on my windshield, so to speak.  There is still a lot for me to reconsider before November, but I can do so now in a clearer light.
To say that I "drank the Kool-Aid" is distasteful to me, because it evokes images of the mass suicide of the Jim Jones tragedy, but I had fully embraced the conservative rhetoric.  I hated the idea that our individual liberties are being insidiously subsumed by an overarching bureaucracy of lemmings that only grows larger and more unwieldy.  My beliefs were couched in paranoia; that our lives are being manipulated toward a new world order, that privacy is disappearing, that our freedoms are being systematically and relentlessly suppressed.  I still have those beliefs, but a veil has been drawn away that prevented me from seeing an alternative perspective.
I had a nostalgic yearning for the America that we grew up in, but the world changes.  It can never again be what it once was, primarily because of the internet and our advanced communications technology.  My fears of an Orwellian society will have to be set aside, or at least moderated by the hope that Americans simply won't allow such a draconian rule.  
I've come to accept that a return to the American ideal of self-reliant individualism just isn't possible anymore.  The younger generations are too ignorant and device-dependent to thrive without subsidization and support.  A larger, more intrusive bureaucracy will be necessary to take care of them.  This is what democrats do best.
So, I will try to disregard all the hype and hyperbole from both sides, and I will (probably) vote in accord with a philosophy of cooperation and compassion.  Saying this provokes an involuntary flinch that reminds me of my choice for McCain over Obama four years ago, but maybe it's better to make choices from the heart rather than the head, particularly in this transitional age of the human race.
Then, I'll cross my fingers!
 
:-D

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O K so you want to talk some trash about mandates, and liars.. Ha Ha. Fine, let's do that, the A B C's of politics and economics. That will at least give us a place to start. No slanted left wing media ideological hacks, just little ole me! If we want to start posting articles by pro obama media sources such as all of the mainstream media outlets, we can do that until hell freezes over, but it won't accomplish anything. As much time spenton Pagan Space misleading the unsuspecting or the uninformed, parroting biased Krazy Karnival so called professional journalistic propagandists, and about “selective capitalism”, if these proponents of fantasia weren't on the payroll of the DNC or some Democrat government sponsored employment by now, then I would say there's a sucker born every minute. These are mostly people who have never owned or run anything in their lives.

This is a battle of ideologies, pure and simple. I own a business and a farm I built from the ground up, with no help from government, or anyone else for that matter. In fact, the government of the Clinton administration, the SBA, and the State of Hawaii were my biggest obstacles to progress at that time.

I have prospered well under the Obama administration, but give absolutely no credit what so ever to obama's rediculous economic policies, that I deem to be disastrous. I work with large corporations, medium, and small business, many independent self employed farmers, and other types of small business, people from all over the world who belong to a variety of social classes and incomes, I partner with Mexicans with 6 figure incomes, I'm in these trenches each and every single day, and I see the government, particularly this administration, as an economic disaster and major obstacle to economic progress and personal sovereignty.

I know all about rural lifestyles. I've lived in the urban messes. I've been through the home mortgage debacle from end to end, and I still see the unfair double edged sword of government management and manipulation of it. That is precisely the reason I have benefited from it, having the knowledge of how to navigate it properly. It's much worse than anything the banks engineered. I clearly understand how and why the mortgage business collapsed. Almost ALL of the arrows point back to government Democrat policies as early as the Carter Administration. Those “big banks” you guys are always railing about, are what bailed me out of the ensuing mess that I'm about to describe to you, and also financed my house. Who financed your house, and your business, Obama?

I WAS one of the 99% for the vast majority of my life. I've lived at or below the poverty line for many years, under employed, or un-employed for 15 years. I live in one of the biggest welfare straggler states loaded with illegal immigrants in the country. I see the concept of social justice being bastardized and manipulated on a day to day basis. In fact, many of you have no clue what that's like. I understand the game completely. I see early retired government worker “double dipping” on a daily basis, it's a common practice, and no one thinks anything of it. Because many of you who live in a multi cultural neighboorhood and watch cable news networks, or surf the internet looking for distorted Googlish Democrat sponsored news clips, in and of itself, does not qualify you as anyone who knows about these issues. You can demagogue it, you can stereotype it, you can misrepresent it, you can idealize it, you can conspiratorialize it, that's the easiest thing to do! The next thing you might try is living it. Obama's lived it, and I've lived it. Thanks, but no thanks to you, “mooch” elle, the party queen.

This country has never been built from the ground up since the pioneer days. Unless you're looking at it upside down. This isn't the 1920's any more. This election will decide whether we maintain the course of traditional opportunity through American capitalistic ingenuity, or whether we become a dependent welfare state, run by closet intellectuals, on the backs of a vastly diminished military, with people who have the skin in the game of government benefits, whether it be the double dipping of federal and state government workers, availability of a variety welfare benefits not limited to food stamps in record numbers, disability, housing, sponging free money for college educations for lifetime career college students, pillaging of the energy business for some delusional concept called “green energy”. The continuation of HUD and SBA policies of lending mortgage money and business loans out to people on the basis of their race and nationality, who have no ability to pay it back, and who want to keep over taxing people whom these idiots deem to be unfairly under taxed in order to pay for it all. Government takeover of pet unionized private enterprises, making their fiscal situation even worse by “investing” in technological boon doggles such as electric cars and phony bankrupt energy companies? The raping of private enterprises through ideologically twisted judges and trial lawyers. The list can go on and on.

No one is suggesting that we get rid of unions. They need to be controlled, particularly government unions, just as well as corporate pirates. No sense being selective about it, because unions can be as corrupt, manipulative, and fiscally destructive as any rogue private enterprise. The companies can prosper with out the unions. Unions only comprise about 20% of the American workforce. The fact is the unions go no where without the companies. They go no where without a job. If they could, they would already be doing it. The corporations will get along fine without them. They don't have a stake in owner ship. They just work there. Obama bailed out General Motors for the specific reason of transferring company stock, illegally, to union members, and told other stock holders to go to hell after they already lost their shirts. He then bought himself some support. Obama also closed down numerous General Motors auto dealerships, setting off a chain reaction of unemployment, putting tens of thousands of people out of work. I worked in the car business for 6 years, so I know something about the auto industry. That is what government ownership will do for you, just like in the days of Marx and Stalin. General Motors is still losing hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars, and they are not out of the woods yet by any means. The fact is that no one in the public really knows how GM is doing. Don't go to Google, go to GM, to find the answers. And yet the government has the audacity to hand out tax incentives for these ridiculous electric cars, that are now being shut down from production. The capitalist system, and modern industrialized ingenuity built General Motors, and not the unions.

But losing 350,000 jobs per month, every single month for the past 3.5 years while adding 100,000 is being spun a net gain for who? Who created these jobs anyway? What jobs? Burger flipping? He claims he personally added over 4.5 million jobs to the economy, while the economy LOST 15 MILLION? W T F ! Is this the kind of outdated Keynesian cave man economics you want to preach? The 24 million people currently out of work then leaves a balance of about nine million carried over from the bush administration. That’s what I mean by delusional, narcissist, megalomaniac, liars, and people who can't count. Or like a crooked preacher, they just simply lie to their faithful. How can one who has his sanity make such a claim? Over-all unemployment at 14% and they are spinning it as 8.2? Because they stopped counting? Do you remember the recession of Jimmy Carter, the icon and economic walking disaster who created no less than three monstrous new government bureaucracies, while the country was sliding into economic depression? The guy who had the audacity to make an appearance at the DNC? They lie to people about unemployment every day, assuming the faithful are 18 years of age and have more than a third grade education. And you want to insult the intelligence of the objective reader here? At what point do you keep passing the ball from Bush to Obama on this one, in your next life? So capitalism is dysfunctional under a president who thinks like he's the feudal king.

There are people who WANT to be lied to, it's like being in a bad abusive marriage.

Unless you have been drizzled on by government agencies who propagandize these issues, women are living at the highest poverty rate and less income in 20 years under Obama, and you want to squawk about a war on women? Does their political opposition have no women in their party? So, at what point do women get ahead with this jerk in the White House? When does that happen? In four more years? He takes the carrot and stick approach, offering them free contraception, of course, not out of his pocket, and that's supposed to appease them?

To the cry baby hypo-chondriac lobby here, I have been seriously injured on two occasions, WITHOUT health insurance, and near bankrupted because of it. I sold off property and assets at the time just to survive. Health insurance mandate, tax, penalty, what the hell difference does it make? Let me make it clear that it is not my purpose here to justify, or not, any changes or up grades to any generic private health insurance. That is not the issue! It's very cunning for the way these issues are convoluted, between the federal disaster coined “Obama Care” and the law in Massachusetts. Romney Care is a misnomer, because it was the Democrat socialists in Massachusetts who engineered it, and passed it over overwhelmingly. They would have done that, with or without Romney. But there's only one thing worse than a liar, and that's a hypocrite, and if you are personally enjoying the benefits of something that you bastardize, then that's the pinnacle of what I call hypocrisy. This is a classic example of the radicalism of Obama and people who can take a simple idea and turn it into a monstrosity of a nightmare. The reason this will all of a sudden disappear as a political issue.

First off, there are two tools in any state legislature that are a part of the checks and balance system, unless there is a mandate by the “Queen”. One is the veto, that applies to the governor. The other is the over ride, that applies to the state assembly. So, hence the UN-enviable position that Romney is in as governor of Massachusetts.

Secondly, for examples, just as Walker in Wisconsin, Schwarzenegger in California, Lingle in Hawaii, Romney as a Massachusetts Republican, in a vastly dominated Democrat state by a huge margin, is out-numbered 10 to 1 in the case of any challenge or objection he may pose to this law. With all the new leadership in place, we know that Wisconsin is no longer bankrupt, but we also know California is hopelessly bankrupt, and Hawaii following their footsteps, run entirely by Democrats. All state governments have deficit issues, depending on the level of the numbers of Democrats in those states who feed off the government trough. Romney takes credit for fiscal solvency in Massachusetts, which since his departure is STILL running about 1.5 billion in debt. And “Romney Care” as it is sinisterly mis-nomered, probably makes up for a large portion of that. Republicans don't run anything in Massachusetts that amounts to a tour DE force of influence..

Thirdly, this law was obviously then, and now, wildly popular with the vast majority of the constituents of the welfare state of Massachusetts, exposing the Hippocratic of the anti Romney factions in that state.

Fourthly, if Romney decided to veto the law, he would have been over-ridden by the assembly. That would have made Romney wildly UN-popular with the welfare starved socialist (masses), (short for Massachusetts). So what realistic choices did Romney really have over the state health care law? Either sign the bill, eat the mandate, or face the firing squad. Whether he liked it or not, or how he defined or coerced a “mandate” is irrelevant. Who would comply with this without a mandate? What of the people who have private insurance? Are their rights and quality of insurance being destroyed the same way the federal version of this would do?

The mandate issue at this point, is moot, for a variety of reasons, and has conspicuously been dropped as a pro obama media political issue, but mainly inclusive of four aspects of lies that Obama crafted in order to deceive the public pertaining to this extremely unpopular idea, Unpopular in the sense that the majority of voters in this country OPPOSE it. That will come out in the wash in this upcoming election.

We'll see who approves it and who doesn't.

One, is the Supreme Court shot down the federal mandate, and ruled that the government has the right to impose a tax, but has no right to force or penalize people into buying this insurance. So take that mandate, roll it up, and put it where the sun don't shine, because it is dead as a door nail. That means the mandate aspect of this deal in Massachusetts could be over turned in the Supreme Court in the case of a challenge. Socialist states like Massachusetts will typically, eventually raise taxes in order to cover the cost of it, ANYWAY

Two, is that the Obama version of healthcare, government owned socialized medicine, single payer system where he LIES to the public that you have the option to keep your doctor. You may want to keep your doctor, but you doctor won't want to keep you. Not all doctors accept all insurance plans. No doctor will be obligated to treat you as your primary care physician under this system. Nor will your employer be obligated to keep you on their plan, which means in most cases, you will be thrown to the “Obama Care” wolves. If you have no insurance, it's better than nothing. But it is a no man's land for people who already do. Employer private insurance premiums are rising rapidly, in order to cover the rising cost of all the new mandates and extra exotic coverages that will be imposed upon them. Massive tax increases will be need to fund even a small portion of this program. Tax increases for who? Pharaoh has already divided up the “haves” and the “have nots” into the 1% and the 99%. That's how I fitted into the 1%.

Three, the burden of the costs of this monstrosity will be mostly shifted to the states, another LIE that Obama spewed about the cost of this. That is precisely why 26 state attorney generals sued at the Supreme Court to try to stop this nonsense. The outcome to be decided in this upcoming election.

Four, There is nothing to stop Obama from running amuck. Obama scraped $700 billion from Medicare ILLEGALLY, in order to kick in funding for his government monstrosity, another LIE he and his henchmen in the Democrat legislature told the public pertaining to how it is to be funded. Who got screwed? Medicare patients, by way of the massive cuts to the program! Then Obama LIES to Medicare patients that the Republicans are taking away their Medicare, when in fact, it was he and the Democrats who cut the $700 billion from it, putting it into a slush fund to spend as they choose, until the bill takes full effect. They have repeatedly LIED about the cost of it, because they have no idea what it is going to cost, and it will most likely be well over a trillion $. Don't worry, be happy, you've got “Obama Care”. To compare this Massachusetts law to the federal plan is a joke, and a sinister act of deception in it's own rite. This “Obama Care” is like a plague, and has to be stopped at all costs, that's all that matters.... I applaud Romney in his opposition to it. It is like comparing apples to oranges in terms of hypocrisy. Politics is not a game for saints or the Pope, or people who live in delusional fantasy worlds. Fiscal management, and responsibility is something that Obama is frighteningly clueless about, that is the broader issue. Like I said, lessor of the two evils.

So, let's get to “Vain Capital”, Obama's primary signature campaign attack strategy against “poor Romney”. First off, Romney is no longer a share holder of “Vain Capital”, and has not been since 2001. That was eleven years ago, another lesson in “counting” for the anti capitalist demagogues. What he does with his off shore investments is frankly his fucking business, and is no business of the DNC, or anybody else for that matter, in their daily fishing expeditions in the cesspool of left wing journalism against laissez-faire capitalism.. As anyone with half a brain would know, the IRS holds all the cards in terms of who is cheating the government, and not the lap dog media or the DNC. Clinton approaches Obama a month or so ago and pleads with him to stop the desecration of “Vain Capital”. Why would he do such a crazy thing? Simple, because he and his Wall Street buddies in the Democrat Party are the new breed of investors at “Vain Capital”. So Clinton can't handle an idiot like Obama running around slipshod complaining about something he can no longer use to fool the public, without implicating far more Wall Street Democrats than Republicans. But not all rich people are a piece of shit.

When was the last time an Occupy Wall Street activist created a single job for anybody? When was the last time obama created a job for anyone? Obama has never had a job in his life, out side of politics. So much for “Vain Capital”, except for the foul poison of anti capitlalist Alynsky-ites wanting to keep feeding off of that trough, to keep that ball rolling anyway they can, continuing their slipshod propaganda pertaining to capitalism. So much to your dismay, as Barak and little Michelle get their asses handed to them. Barak, the traitor, the betrayer of our military, the ignoramus of foreign policy, the sheepish coward, and the radical activist apologist, gets his tail stuffed between his cheeks. And where he ends up is immaterial, as long as we get rid of him as “Communist in Chief”.

Wow, Dave, that was amazing!!  I feel like I just watched a warrior kick the hell out of someone!  Ha Ha!  I got a vicarious adrenaline rush.

Good show!  Really impressive!  I can't wait to see Dr. Frankenstein's riposte!

Nick?  Your turn!

(I hope you don't mind me cheering both sides; it's pretty awesome to watch!)

"If we want to start posting articles by pro obama media sources such as all of the mainstream media outlets, we can do that until hell freezes over, but it won't accomplish anything."

Forbes isn't a liberal rag. The owner and editor chief is a hard line conservative.

Actual facts from government sites aren't media.

"This is a battle of ideologies, pure and simple."

Your right.

Democrats want to sponsor public works projects. Investing in infrastructure creates jobs and promotes growth. When they finally get the commuter rail up in my state, which the Republican Governor(read Medicare Thief) tried to block, it will do so much to help our economy. We have shit for public transportation and we are one of the most populace US states.

Republicans have renamed Reaganomics, calling it "Tax cuts for job creators", this shit doesn't work. Rich folks don't reinvest in the community, they don't keep jobs here. Look at Bain Capital, outsourcing jobs, slashing already promised benefit packages, and liquidating companies.

I'm not saying that companies shouldn't die, economical survival of the fittest is a cornerstone of capitalism.

The problem is, it's NOT capitalism. In capitalism, if you make a bad investment, you lose your money.

Bain capital insures that these rich fuckwads get their money back on bad investments.

If you go to Vegas, and you put all your money down on 15 black, and lose, you don't get your money back.

If a middle class person puts their money into the stocks of a start up, and it fails, they lose their money.

So how can it be okay, how can it be capitalism, for big wig investors to basically be stealing their money back when they fuck up.

How is it capitalism, when they lump together all the bad debt(home loans given to unqualified, another anti-capitalist short term money making scheme) and purposely defraud the buyer of those debts?

I hate the Democrats, but they have a slightly more trustworthy platform and track record.

"It's much worse than anything the banks engineered. I clearly understand how and why the mortgage business collapsed. Almost ALL of the arrows point back to government Democrat policies as early as the Carter Administration. Those “big banks” you guys are always railing about, are what bailed me out of the ensuing mess that I'm about to describe to you, and also financed my house. Who financed your house, and your business, Obama?"

Banks give out home loans to people that can't afford them, this is a short term way to profit that hurts THEIR OWN INVESTORS. They than package all these bad mortgages up and sell them off.

If Frannie and Freddy weren't bailed out, we would have seen millions more foreclosures. Banks couldn't cover their own shortsighted losses.

If people wanna do good, they'd put their money in local institutions. Credit Unions strengthen the community by keeping the money local.

BOA takes your saving(since Clinton repealed Glass-Steagal) and uses it to gamble in foreign markets. Puts money into foreign businesses.

"This isn't the 1920's any more. This election will decide whether we maintain the course of traditional opportunity through American capitalistic ingenuity, or whether we become a dependent welfare state, run by closet intellectuals, on the backs of a vastly diminished military, with people who have the skin in the game of government benefits, whether it be the double dipping of federal and state government workers, availability of a variety welfare benefits not limited to food stamps in record numbers, disability, housing, sponging free money for college educations for lifetime career college students, pillaging of the energy business for some delusional concept called “green energy”."

I agree with you that we need to fix government spending. Especially what they spend on themselves, but you are wrong on everything else.

Read what I posted here about health care we're spending more per person than Canada does, and I don't mean per person on welfare, government employees, or GI bills; you know people actually being paid for.
We spend more PER CITIZEN than Canada and they give every citizen free health care.

The Health Insurance industries are PRICE GOUGING us to death.

Those doctors get tons of money, money they deserve for going to school for 8 years. However, they are broke for the first few years out of med school because THE PRICE OF COLLEGE HAS INCREASED 2000% OVER THE LAST 40 YEARS. Has the minimum wage increased that much? How about average salary?

Health Insurance, Colleges, Oil companies, etc. are taking advantage of their ability to control the government.

Health Insurance companies set prices that are BS, look into Nasal Sinuplasty. The Price of the procedure was based on charging for the balloon each time. Johnson & Johnson, the manufactures of this balloon, recommend the balloons be used 6 times before being discarded, which the doctors do. Yet the cost of the procedure, is much higher. The doctors/nurses get $400 per nostril for inserting and inflating a balloon in your nose. The insurance companies profit $2,600 for as if the balloon is thrown out after each use.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/life/health-care/world-health-car...

NPR is not liberal, they are publicly funded and owe nobody.

College has increased in price by 2,000%. Clearly someone is profiteering.

Exxon gets their taxes lowered to insensitive them. They are part of the price fixing, known as speculation, that allows them to garner obscene profits. They should pay a percentage equal to the average American in taxes, since they are viewed as people by the law.

Welfare and food stamps are so high because the minimum wage is so far bellow the poverty line.

If private enterprise is being raped, why then:

Are executives making hundreds of times more than they would have for the same position 40 years ago.(adjusted for inflation).

They able to pay people like Bain capital to gut companies, break contractual agreements, all in order to make back money they invested, that they would have lost 40 years ago.

Why are these companies posting record profits, if they are being raped so hard?

Small business are hurting. The Middle class is disappearing, and you think Big Business is being raped?

Unions stopped child labor, unions got employee health care, and unions stopped unsafe working conditions. There is corruption, yes, but that doesn't mean they should be dismantled, and many in the GOP do argue for their destruction.

Obama bailed out GM because they were $80 Billion dollars, half of their yearly income. Whatever he did was clearly a good idea, GM has paid the money back(with interest) and is now doing better beforehand.

I don't know what your talking about with this loss of jobs BS. We have had GROWTH, not loss of jobs over more than a 20 month period. Some months the growth doesn't outweigh number of births/immigrants, but it's still more jobs made than loss. Even The GOP admits it. They are attacking Obama for not causing FAST ENOUGH growth.

I stopped reading at this point:

"Is this the kind of outdated Keynesian cave man economics you want to preach?"

Because I'm busy and this shows you are a complete fool, oh and this:

"And where he ends up is immaterial, as long as we get rid of him as “Communist in Chief”."

You don't even understand what communism IS. Socialism and Communism are no where near the same thing. You are suppose to accuse him of being a socialist, not a communist.

Can you post any proof? Any sources? because all this bull shit you are spewing can only be taken at your word, and calling Obama a Communist Kenyan makes your word worth less than a velvet painting of a whale'a vagina.

calling Obama a Communist Kenyan makes your word worth less than a velvet painting of a whale'a vagina.


Best comment that came from this whole thread.

calling Obama a Communist Kenyan makes your word worth less than a velvet painting of a whale'a vagina.

 

I've got much better choice words for it than that, Hiatus! I'm just trying to be politically correct, here! One whale's vagina is another man's anal abyss, is another man's empty mouth. Ha ha!

 

But I'm glad, good sir, that you took the time to read it, and frankly, I agree with much of what you have said through out the entire thread, but of course, not all of it. Some of your opinions are extremely valid and thoughtful, and I was not directing my comments toward you per se'.

 

I don't have the time on hand, that apparently you do, to be a Pagan Space political analyst, but the bullshit YOU are spewing is coming from the media sources that are linked to Obama's communist regime, mostly through Google (another DNC advocate, and we got here Antony, apparently another DNC advocate who is still trying to find his way through life) so i don't know who the fuck YOU think you're bullshitting, there big guy.

 

But I will make a prediction for you, so you don't get your hopes too high:

 

Romney takes the White House, and the Repubs take BOTH houses. So you guys had better get used to this "hope and change" stuff that's coming. I'm looking forward to it!

Very good.  I like this.  It's helpful to have all the talking points in one location, especially with links provided!  

For a pretty good breakdown of the pros and cons of both sides, one need only read this discussion.

Thanks!  I do genuinely think this is great stuff.

Ok, back again. Sorry daughters Bday.  13, yeesh.  Disney and the Beach.  Im sunburned and tired arrg.

OK let me try some responses before i fall asleep. Starting with end and working back on some but not all .

Note. I researched and read 5 pages on each search enging responding to 5 questions . I stayed away from any sites that were " hate" sites or  stuff like affiliates like foxnews ( Which I do watch) and NBC and CBS ( i watch BBC and CBS also)

The way Obama runs things and the way he responds via spending does look to be a socialist way of running things. I found over 9,800,000 and 43,000,000 sites roughly via google and Yahoo. Question asked on each page,   Is Obama Socialist or Capitalist? simple question doesnt point to any one direction I thought.

First 5 pages on each search engine randomly looked at said his agenda and spending points to Socialism agendas.

Did GM pay back the Loans?  Again simple question. 2,400,000 on Google and yahoo had like 22 million.

if you count the 6.7 billion dollar hard cash loan yes Gm seems to have paid that back. But since GM only showed a 7.2 billion dollar profit.  then according to 12 sites I researched ( throwing out FOX news and some foul mouthed blogger )  seems that there is no real way they could have even  gotten half of the 47 billion dollar loan touched.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/08/15/taxpayers-gm-investment-down...

and http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36652465/ns/business-autos/t/source-say...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/why-is-obama-br...

sadly I can't really find a UP to date figure of loans and investment quotes. Other than hearsay . I don't think that we can really come up with more accurate figures til years end? 

 

I think i answered the Jobs question earlier, can't remember. But I cant go back to that page on my phone for some reason. Basically the Jobs are worse.  8.1 percent jobless. And if you take into account seasonally adjusted labor.  Then yes there was  a growth. But also they don't count the people who have quit looking for jobs.,  and no longer taking But i did a quick question again.   Current Real Jobless Rates.

And according to the actual Bureau of Labor Statistics U-3 is 8.1 But the u-6 puts it closer to 14.7  and if you take into effect the number of people simply dropping out of the work force or no longer getting the checks for unemployment of 99 weeks. makes the number almost 24%

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

http://www.cnbc.com/id/34040009/The_Real_Jobless_Rate_17_5_Of_Worke...

 

 So I tried to takle at least three of these. by giving the most informed answers I could from sites I hoped were someone informative . 

These are my opinions folks. Be nice to me Im fragile.

I could try to tackle unions later which I used to be a  part of and greatly dislike  with every fiber of my being.  but I'm  bushed.

Must get some zzzz's in .

Dale da Ogre.

Hot coco and Hugs for all!!

one of P.s's Token Christians.

 

 

Unless you have been drizzled on by government agencies who propagandize these issues, women are living at the highest poverty rate and less income in 20 years under Obama, and you want to squawk about a war on women? Does their political opposition have no women in their party? So, at what point do women get ahead with this jerk in the White House? When does that happen? In four more years? He takes the carrot and stick approach, offering them free contraception, of course, not out of his pocket, and that's supposed to appease them?

 


The war on women refers to the republican views on women's reproductive rights.  The federal government has no right to mandate anything over my body.  Paul Ryan wants to ban all abortions (even proposed a bill that would with congressman Akin, who thinks rape is a legitimate crime).  Say you have a daughter; she gets raped and is impregnated.  She is forced to carry the rapist child?  According to the republicans yes.  A pregnant woman goes to the hospital with life threatening complications.  So instead of aborting the fetus to save the mothers life, both have to die?  What happens if the baby has a terminal birth defect?  Would you want your own child to be born only to spend their few hours out of the womb in pain? 

The choice to have an abortion, to take contraceptives etc is between the woman, her doctor, and whatever higher power she believes in.  It is not made by politicians. 

Contraception is used to treat hormonal problems, skin conditions, and  menstration issues.  It also very expensive.  My mom took birth control for years because her periods were so painful and heavy she couldn't function.  Also, we pay higher insurance premiums than men to begin with.  Why?  Because our reproductive organs are on the inside.

SO yes, I feel like the republicans are waging war    

  

  

       

At what point do you keep passing the ball from Bush to Obama on this one, in your next life? So capitalism is dysfunctional under a president who thinks like he's the feudal king.


The bailouts started with Bush but Obama let them go through.  The truth of the matter is that the government allowed itself to be intimidated into doing it by bankers.  Both of the major parties were involved in that under both Bush and Obama. Bailing out GM? I fear this is a case where we suffer now or later.  We can't keep on depending on gas driven vehicles for our transportation needs. It will eventually run out and we had better be ready for that.  GM has not showed any ability to produce a viable alternative, that is going to be the province of new companies with new ideas, not the oil/automotive cronies. They probably have bought up more good ideas just to keep them out of production than they can think up themselves internally (or they would have done so and not had to worry about competition).  I just wonder what they have done with all the patents they have bought over the years.  They just have not done enough to develop new technologies; and yes, I believe in "green tech".  There is not a place on earth where water does not flow, or wind blow, or sun shine, or earth boil, or some combination of these potential resources.  It is a lack of trust and trying that has kept natural alternatives from being developed and used.

GM? the public asked for a mode of transportation that circumvented the gas pump and BM, more interested in competing with companies producing higher end vehicles, gave us bells, whistles...and SUVs. No wonder they are failing. What do I need with DVD players or direct TV in my vehicle? I have to drive not watch soap operas when I am in my vehicle, and I can park the thing by myself. 

Millions of Americans know that gas prices are not going to go down appreciably, ever again.  We first and foremost want to wean our selves off gasoline and GM is just not helping.  If they are such failures then allow them to go down and new companies arise to fill the gap.  Propping up GM saved us now by just created problems for the future and anyone who believes the banks can't take care of themselves has just got to think again.

But it was both parties who lacked insight and vision enough to stand firm against corporate misrepresentation/terrorism that wanted/created the bailouts from mismanagement that created them right down to the perceived need for them to happen. 

This country seriously needs another party to give these good old boy cronies some competition.  The Big 2 parties are too buddy-buddy with the corporations.  The Democrats are power hungry wanna-be king-of-the-mountain and the Repo men (Republicans) are the corporations who hold the power in this country, having usurped it from the individuals who live here (Corporations might be entities made up of people but they are not in themselves people, they are more like driven machines, like cars, than people by nature.) 

I don't think either one of them are very good at long term planning for the citizens of this country. "...by the people, for the people...", my ass!  Just like GM, the country needs change and they keep presenting us unwieldy, over accessorized vehicles by which to accomplish that change. Ain't gonna happen.  Hard changes need to happen and a lot of people are going to suffer in the throws of those changes because they have already been too long in coming.

"At what point do you keep passing the ball from Bush to Obama on this one, in your next life? So capitalism is dysfunctional under a president who thinks like he's the feudal king."

I've already posted the link in here that shows the proof. Obama increased spending less than any president since Eisenhower. Do you understand that? Our budget grows every year, it CAN'T go backwards with out real reform. Real reform can only come with compromise. When the Dem's had Congress and the White House, before they fucked it up, they got filibustered all day. This whole "Our way or the highway" in congress is actually more to blame than Bush.

Post the spending increase between Clinton and Bush 2, that's an exact slice of 8 years vs 8 years.

Show the growth of these years.

"The bailouts started with Bush but Obama let them go through.  The truth of the matter is that the government allowed itself to be intimidated into doing it by bankers.  Both of the major parties were involved in that under both Bush and Obama. Bailing out GM? I fear this is a case where we suffer now or later.  We can't keep on depending on gas driven vehicles for our transportation needs. It will eventually run out and we had better be ready for that.  GM has not showed any ability to produce a viable alternative, that is going to be the province of new companies with new ideas, not the oil/automotive cronies."

GM failing, which it would have (half a years profit would destroy them). Do you understand what would have happened if half GMs employees were fired? If millions more would have had their homes foreclosed on if Mac and Mae hadn't been bailed out?

Try an unemployment rate of over 15%.

Find a nation which had a similar housing market crash, post there current unemployment.(Hint, EU bail out, not Greece, not Ireland, not Italy. Here's another hint they speak SPAINish.)

Move had to be made.

Risky business strategies that fail, yet gut and run hurt us.

Illegal and quasi-legal tax sheltering hurt us.

Giving tax breaks to rich folks and huge companies hurt us. Since the biggest companies and richest people hold most the wealth, their tax cuts hurt our countries bottom line the most.

Now to break down the gas issue:

1.) We have no control over gas prices. We've been lax in efficiency, yes, but China's increasing consumption is waaaaay worse.

2.) What other source? Energy has to come from somewhere and solar is not effective at all. What do we increase? Coal? Nuclear? Hydro(also not so effective)?

3.) It's all about demand. Until fuel prices climbed so high, Americans bought more of the less efficient vehicles. This is a free market and when gas was under $2.00 We Demanded Gas Guzzlers. Now we are being supplied with better fuel mileage, because we are fed up with the high prices.

4.) So you agree with the Dem's that they need to regulate the auto industry and set MPG standards?

Adding another party would not do shit, maybe worsen it? I'd say it would be more harmful than good.

We need to:

1.) Set up a system in which ONLY tax payer money is used in campaigning(trust me, in the long run it's cheaper.)

2.) Abolish Electoral Colleges, both parties, and the whole process for primaries.

3.) ????

4.) Profit.

"The Democrats are power hungry wanna-be king-of-the-mountain and the Repo men (Republicans) are the corporations who hold the power in this country, having usurped it from the individuals who live here (Corporations might be entities made up of people but they are not in themselves people, they are more like driven machines, like cars, than people by nature.) "

Uhhhhhh, NO.

90% of elected officials should be voted out.

Supreme Court should be fired.

DEA deleted, FDA gutted and staffed by health professors with doctorates.

Want more solutions?

I'll leave you with this, the top contributors for both parties:

http://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topcontribs.php

You can thank his speech writers...I don't believe a word of it though...just spin. I will say that the Dem's have been known for their speeches and impressions. Other than that, I just call it a dog and pony show.

"I don't believe a word of it though...just spin."

See the problem with this statement is that there are things called facts. Now, you don't have to believe facts, but that doesn't change the nature of the fact.

None of the statements made in Clinton's speech were lies. Many of the things said in Ryan's speech at the RNC were outright lies.

You can say you don't agree with the sentiment, that you don't agree with the platform, etc. But you can't say that what he said is untrue.

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