Today I got into a Discussion with my summer school Philosophy professor about religions that fit into the "other" category; such as the Occult, Witchcraft, and Satanism. One of the other students made a claim that Satanism, Witchcraft, and the occult are the reasons why America is suffering so much. He said that America was built upon Christian Values so letting Goddess and Satan worshipers into our country is doing more harm then allowing illegal immigrants.

He also provided "sources" for his beliefs which I have linked below.


So, what do you all think? Are we, the "others", causing America's decline? Have we invoked the wrath of god?


I personally think what's happening with America (i.e. terrorism, debt, etc.) is mostly a political/money grubbing problem not a religious problem.


Video 1

Video 2

Video 3  




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Enigma? Isn't that Chris Everard's thing? I listened to this guy rant on the Truth Frequency podcast once (but only because there was another guest in that episode that I wanted to hear). He's fucking pathetic.

Whoever made them I refuse to watch the videos because I'm in a bad mood now and don't want give them more views.

Just a PS to the OP .... you mentioned a fellow student saying America was founded on "Christian Values" .... this is a HUGE misconception.  Proves the fact that if you repeat a lie over and over and over, people will take it as truth.  Our founding fathers were Deists and Puritans who led something of a "Christian Revolt" ... they were victims of religious persecution and came to America ... and wanted the "New World" to be free of such persecution and judgment.  235 years later, we seem to have forgotten this.

I'm definitely open to hearing this, Tracey, as to me, the Founding Fathers lived in a time much different to ours, and we tend to sway in favour of anachronistic thinking, and this leads us to erroneous conclusions. Let's take the example of the Deist. what we understand as Deist, was understood rather differently back then, and as religious belief was so endemic to one's life, people who saw themselves as Deists (such as Jefferson) valued the teachings of Christ but rejected the dogma that had been built up around the religion of Christianity. This would therefore mean to our eyes in this day and age, that back then, a Deist would do and say things that would define them as Christian, even though they would state that they were Deist.

Paine didn't reject religion completely;

Mr Virtuous Franklin was unable to fathom virtue without religion;

Adams nodded at Paine quite often...


I'm just really not convinced that with the background they had to begin with, Christianity and Christian mores *of that era* seeped into their thinking, even if they tried to reject religion from the founding of the country.


Deists (such as Jefferson) valued the teachings of Christ but rejected the dogma that had been built up around the religion of Christianity. This would therefore mean to our eyes in this day and age, that back then, a Deist would do and say things that would define them as Christian, even though they would state that they were Deist.


Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term "Nature's God" used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.



IOW, Jefferson didn't believe in a 'divine' Jesus, so by definition he wasn't a 'Christian' per se, since Christianity is based on belief in Jesus as a savior god.

Please let me know when you're ready to discuss all the different types of soteriology in Christianity, Aurelia. I seem to remember you leaving the discussion when I brought that up. . . And yet you're touting the same argument here =/

Your summer school philosophy teacher is a total fucking genius!


What the world needs is a good scape goat and those guys are prefect.

Oh dear dog...very interesting discussion...a ridiculous idea presented...some interesting and informative discussion, some trolling, some flaming, some humor...and now, Ritalin-Bunny has hit the nail in the head! It's a helluva day in the PS neighborhood! Thanks made my day and you made more sense than anything I've read in a long time... ¦~D
The Satanists?? Who?
The fact is that both Christianity and Islam tend more toward the domination theory of religion, which is that everyone needs to be one of them, and outsiders are the problem. Judaism, which is the other major monotheistic religion, doesn't do that much, but if you read the Bible, they did at one time. To a certain extent, America is in a "decline," but it has much more to do with Socioeconomic factors that are perpetuated by religion, not caused by it. The biggest problem, as I see it at least, is the lack of ability to see anyone else's point of view but their own. and practitioners of the Occult, Satanism, Wicca, etc... have much less of those that the major tree. In a way, I agree with you about the political/money grubbing thing, but people tend to try to attach religion to that sort of thing. It makes them look more moral or something. At least they think it does, there's not much difference.
so according to this video, we are not supposed to trust ourselves? it's bad enough if you can't trust the people around you, but now you can't trust yourself? you cant decide by your hearts decision? it sounds like a communist made this, what are we supposed to be told what to do and what line to do it in? this video is ridiculous, you're not supposed to think, you're supposed to be a vegetable then god will accept you, this video is too satanic for me, it sounds like the devil made it. i'm sure not all musicians are thelemites, or satanists, i'm sure half of these musicians would probably get offended and sepultura are not based on crowley but more on shamanism, punkrock is outlawish not crowleyish, maybe music shouldn't be sold, because people choose what to listen to. nobody should have cars because they choose them and no one should have a career because it is normally chosen by a hearts decision. this video is bs.
When settlers came to the US from Brittain the big thing was to keep church and state seperate. That person you spoke of is ridiculous! If anything we have way tooo much religion in our country. Not by individuals but our country in general, as in swearing on the bible in court... things of that nature... politicians discussing god before elections, etc

It seems the founding of America changed christianity but the values of America were established outside of it's influence, ''Freedom from religion".


Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness


USA #1!


Some people are just ignorant idiots who will believe any fundamentalist propaganda they read or watch. I remember when I was in school many years ago and a teacher used to hand me Chic publications comics and suggest I read them. I filed a complaint and he stopped, but it caused much unease for the rest of the school year. I don't think I personally have invoked any wrath of god, lol. But I think When fundamentalism of any kind is mixed with politics it is a breeding ground for hatred and bigotry. Americans who are not willing to speak their concerns, vote or atleast take action against these kinds of people will contribute to our downward spiral. 



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