From a religious perspective can someone explain this too me? Maybe it's about balance I don't know. But I'm talking about people who just take advantage of others and don't care about anyone but themselves. Plus serial killers, child molesters and rapists exist. Why do people who live off the government but make millions in un taxed drug money while other people work hard, pay taxes and strugle exist?

I know those are human/psychological problems but what about from a "gods will" type way why does this stuff exist in the first place? It's confusing to me and I don't want to do the does free will exist vs omniscience debate, but when I was thinking about this I did start wondering about that again because the way I see it they rule each other out-leaving different questions and answers for both concepts.

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When I started thinking about this-triggered by current events in my life, I immediately lost a lot of faith in whatever god I believe in-I haven't identified a god I 100% believe in yet but I am open to possibilities and have always believed in something-being raised Christian can do that, but thinking of this put a big dent in the little faith I had anyway.
From an atheistic, secular or scientific perspective I would say chaos is the rule-and that makes perfect logical sense.
The gods give us "free will."  So... there's that set back.  Oops.
....ok I'll take the bait...

I understand that concept however do you also believe in total omniscience? Because the me the two rule each other out and can't exist at the same time. If gods are truely totally omniscient that would mean they would know everything that happens before it happens and allow it to happen anyway.?

Or, I just thought of this, maybe they ARE totoally omniscient, however not all powerfull? Maybe some religions think gods are more or less powerful than others.

I was taught the Christian god who was the only god was all knowing, all powerfull and yet free will somehow exists, to me it implies predestiny and fate but no actual choices though actions might feel like choices-if a god was truelly all powerfull he or she would have no problem creating that illusion. Some human behaviour just doesn't look like it happens by choice, some stuff is just too crazy.

But I go back and forth. Both arguments make sense to me-by themselves. Throw in the all powerful thing and it just adds to the confusion for me. This would be a question Christians couldn't answer me for sure, really want a mind fuck? Throw in the concept the god(s) are GOOD, which is also conflicting to me when paired with 100% power and omniscience.
Well I don't assume that but it's what I was taught. The whole all powerful, all knowing, everything that happens is God'd will thing

Everything that which still exists, does so simply because it works. Just like in nature. Crime does pay off, not always, but often enough to be considered as an option. For instance, Lions like to rob weaker predators like hyenas and cheetahs if they don't quite feel like hunting and just want a snack.Mean lions!

Rape works as well, especially if you use it in war. I don't know if you knew this, but rape (of infants and adults alike) exists in nature. Male 'alpha' guinea pigs rape other males as a method to make them go away or at least too intimidated to try to mate females. Weasels rape newborn females in their nests for the sake of procreation (a weasel is able to conceive practically from birth on).

You would not believe all the things which are natural. I do not see what gods have to do with it, and how they are supposed to adhere to morals humans developed to get along with humans.Gods are amoral.

If you take this 1 god and its omniscience, how about: god sticks to its own business. We could indeed handle it on our own. perhaps the god does not care about details because it is not anthropomorphic enough? I don't know how handling & organising humans is a deity business.

There was a thread a while back about animals being violent etc. Of course they are but humans are the ones that claim to be civilized and of higher inteligence and yet they exibit the same behaviour of wild animals-only the motives can be different. The animals kingdom is based on the law of the jungle-if your weak you die, while humans protect and reward the weak, so animals are much different, the tough mean ones survive, the weak submissive ones die-that's it, with humans things can be much more complex.

"Gods are amoral"

yes I've heard that view and you might of hit the nail on the head-for clarification what exactly do you mean by amoral?

"god sticks to its own business"

sounds like deism which makes sense to me. However I interpret that as god doesn't give a fuck=god is NOT good.

" I don't know how handling & organising humans is a deity business."

Well the whole loving father/creator think was drilled into my head...

with amoral I just mean that the rules we established for each other (humans) are alien to them. it does not mean they are rotten and sinful, lol. I think it might be easier for polytheists, because there you have gods who have their areas of care. If you have 1 god who supposedly cares for everything, then I can see how it is a problem in the first moment.


what if god is mainly a creative force with no interest in support and operations (extend to accounting, logistics etc). so in the monotheistic continuum, the creative force god created around, created human in its fashion (with the desire to create more than just offspring) and did not have the idea to interfere with the business of its creation at any point, simply because it is not in the nature of this force, a force with no interests in morals, judgment, and bureaucracy of any kind to such a degree that it did not interfere when the idea of god worship came up.

this 'god' may have not even felt addressed in the first place, also because its view on humans, and anything it created and creates, is really far away from what WE perceive as caring. maybe this 'god' cares. seriously, ants and bees live in very organised communities, from an outside perspective it may indeed be just a question of patience for any spectator, until we got our shit straight on our own. i hope you get the idea.

Whether anything natural is an opponent or not is a matter of handling, not of anythings nature in itself.*

They live naturally and work their physique hard to achieve and survive.

The opposite. They are so trained, so flexible and so elegant because they are always in the moment.  If you ever had a cat or a dog, you noticed how they do movements for the sake of the movements in complete devotion. They don't work anything hard, because being in the moment and with the moment removes the 'work' aspect.


I perceive you as very judgmental with all that. Do you like that, or is it required to place judgment on everything in your practice?


*Babies are also not afraid of deadly scorpions, poisonous spiders, etc.

If you say so. I guess you know my thoughts about what I think of judgment vs creation.


Humans, unlike animals, adhere to a different set of rules as we are, in essence, of a different category/hierarchy of creation


No, we don't adhere to anything properly otherwise Sylvester would not have to ask this question, but effortless mastery has a lot to do with the devotion a cat has while stretching after a nap.

Ya I wouldn't say animals "train". No one teachs a cat to get on the refrigerater, they just have the instinctual desire to be high up(mini mountain lions) and figure it out.


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