Worried about the sexualization of young children and masking it as art.

OK what are your thoughts on this. personally i think the routine
artistic but who the hell would let their 7yo do that kind of a dance to a song about a Guy watching his ex girlfriend dancing friendly with another man at a club,
and not think it is improper.?

I am all for artistic expression but this is crossing a line that we
really shouldn't be crossing. thoughts please do you think I am over reacting to this?

No I do not have any children so I can't say that I understand from that viewpoint, but I am an artist so I can comment on it that way and I am not buying the whole " you just don't understand its just a dance" theory. They are still way to young for those moves and those outfits.
if we let this just go aren't we creating the very situations child predictors crave and capitalize on.


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I think what vig is trying to say is the adults need to consider their affect on children.

Yes, but it goes deeper. Because it's not just paedophiles or a few parents who make it an issue. I'm looking at WHY anyone would see the wearing of any clothes (fashion being a very transitory thing) as advertising sex, or sexualized anyone. It's not just about kids, though the kids dancing their hearts out does make for a good example of what I'm talking about since (in theory) most people understand that the kids aren't trying to advertise sex.

The same question can be asked about a given kind of dance. Or music.

What is sensual and appealing, is very much a cultural construct. And culture is formed by the people in it, and it is those people who will bolster and strengthen or bring about change in societal attitudes. Focusing on the clothes worn or "artistic expression" is missing this point.
yes, it's a sexual language and we all know it ~ it would be just as "innocent" if a 7 year old was referring to their below the belt area as their "pussy" or their "cock" etc, THEY might not know what they're saying but there's a reason most parents don't teach their kids those words. You just don't want them going up to some stranger and thinking they're being cute when they are really making some sexual advance.
WTF?What are you talking about?Dare i ask?
There are always fine lines with charged issues like this one, especially when there is two completely opposing sides and not a lot of room for compromise.

We do over react in some issues in the west but there are standards that have existed in most cultures concerning certain things and they aren't just going to be overturned because someone tosses out how prudish we all are in the west.

Where it is wrong to try and hide appropriate forms of affection in our society it is also wrong to advocate for public sex but one could argue that it is mere conditioning that makes this kind of thing seem wrong. The same as we have a few here trying to tell us that kids bumping and grinding in Victoria Secrets outfits is just mere child's play and we shouldn't think nothing of it.

I mean, come on, get real !

We have to have boundaries, no society can withstand a culture void of boundaries and there can be no protection against things detrimental to any society without boundaries. I think people cross healthy boundaries and start running over into unhealthy places when they try to use this kind of thing to undo the harm that has clearly been done in the name of modesty in the too strict puritan sense that we in the west have had to live under for so long.

This is my opinion of course and I don't believe anyone has anything other than their opinion on this particular issue on the OP. I see it as just more tossing the baby out with the bathwater, everyone is too willing to accept this kind of thing as natural and normal because they fear the alternative, which in their minds is going back to the old prudish puritanism ways.
I see it as just more tossing the baby out with the bathwater, everyone is too willing to accept this kind of thing as natural and normal because they fear the alternative, which in their minds is going back to the old prudish puritanism ways.

I do agree with you there but I do feel that there is also a bit more to it and it has to do with the way are society is geared to be a fast passed lifestyle, at some point the parents get either to tired with their life i.e job, hobbies ect.. to care that much about what their kids are up to ( I know there are some out there it isn't a general statment about the majority) or dont feel like they need to BOTHER with them at all. I have known a few kids that where not planned (but then I don't think most kids are planned) and subsiquently blammed for everything wrong in their parents lifes.

I am enjoying the thred everyone seems to be giving it serious thought and thats good.
I am not a dancer or a teacher of dance or a judge of dance, but the five dancers (yes, I call them dancers) were performing like American Dance format. Whatever that program is called. I think me the audience enjoyed their showing what appears to me the results of their obvious to me long hours, days, weeks, months, years of practice that made it possible for them at that time in their lives to get together to rehearse and perform at the level that they did. I am not qualified to judge their technique, showmanship, errors etc etc because I was merely a member of the audience, not a journalist or expert judge.

As for children in art there are so many examples I will lead with paintings and sculptures naked Jesus in the arms of Mary the Blessed Virgin;)

I do agree with the purpose of the questions that the safety and the care of all children should never be left out of the sight of good; yes, evil is never short to find its openings.
But this video, I think is not evil, it is a place of showing excitement and danger all performers and speaker get from getting on the stage and performing their hearts out!

Also, I agree that the hip movements took away from the routine, those did not I think add positively to the routine. If I were the choreographer I would suggest those be cut!

I personally do not like the black and red costume colors.

I am interested to see how much they improve when they are 12 years old.
I do like alot of her work, and yes I agree about how she photographs her children to emphesise the innocence of childhood. granted I do not think a good childhood and an innocent childhood need to do the same thing. my childhood was very good and hardly innocent, but very innocent as far as my child intent went.
Fundamentally, I think it does have merit as it is a form of dance and takes skill to execute. For personal taste, I don't care much about the details, like the costumes or music choice. I don't want to assume it's sexualization, though it is hard to look the other way on that.

What matters in this is with the parents being okay with that. And while they are the driving force behind it for whatever reason (living through the glory of their children, monetary gain, skill set development, etc), it's gonna exist and there will be a market for it. So I think it comes down more to a level of exploitation, when it comes to the bad traits.

I don't find the pageantry or dancing revolting, but the archetypal/stereotypical mentalities that drive it. It's one thing if the children take the interest in doing the routine, and the parent is helping nurture that desire. It's when the removal of the child's well-being is removed and it becomes a matter of dealing with the parent's selfishness for such things. This can go for dance, sports, gymnastics - any activity.

People might be jaded to assume it can only be sexualization, but I think it could also extend into general adult maturity. Children mimic adults, they're hardwired for it as they're learning how to function as individuals and within society. Obviously, sexuality is a part of the process, but only a a part of. While the form of this is more risque and questionable in the circumstance given, it isn't that much different from learning team sports or working within groups under adult supervision for peer bonding and socialization. In effect, they are learning those things. But what is the value of that compared to the value of being exposed to sex too soon? What are the future ramifications psychologically and would it empower or embitter a woman to her sex?

But what are the reverse effects of taking too much care to "protect?" It is something they are going to learn, and these days sooner than later.
Personally I agree that children have no place wearing provocative clothing or doing provocative dance moves or any moves that could be perceived in a sexual nature. But most of all I believe that the parents need to take personal responsibility and never allow their children to act in such a way as to put them at risk to be victimized and ridiculed . The sad fact is that some people should never become parents, like the type of parent that would allow that type of behavior just to capitalize on it for their own personal gain. The sad fact is that things like this and unfortunately things much much worse than this happens every day in this world.
Maturation doesn't happen in vacuum, or over night. Maturation starts at birth and moves through very predictable stages. Children dressing and acting as adults is part of that. Sending them these mixed signals about what is "okay" rather then helping them to experiment in appropriate settings, is going to confuse them and inhabit their transition to the world of adulthood.

Kids are not helped by an arbitrary list of things they shouldn't do until they are "adult." If anything, you've just given them a blue-print for how to rebel against you.
I could not agree more with your comment on giving your children a blueprint on how to rebel against you. I consistently have this argument with the other guardian of my daughter who for example insists on forcing my daughter to wear what she picks out for her to wear to school which inevitably ends up in a early morning screaming match and sets the tone for the day. I think we have to choose our battles wisely with kids give them options to choose from and who cares if they don't match? I'd rather send my daughter to school mismatched with a smile on her face and let her figure those things out for herself {to an extent of course} and save the battle mode for when it comes time to do their homework or clean their room. If you start the day with senseless arguing the child has already shut you out and you have no hope of getting anywhere with them later on the important issues. Where as they are more likely to compromise with you if you give them a little room to breathe on the silly things like what their wearing to school. I say as long as their appropriate for the outside temperature and aren't showing unnecessary body parts that's all that matters right?
I think that the outfits should have been less lingerie like, and a few of the moves left out. Those girls are really good dancers, and little girls love to play big girls all the time - but cuter, less revealing outfits would have shown off their dance style in a much less provocative way. Really, they are doing a shimmy in a lacy halter bra that they in no way "fill-out". They've got the rest of their grown up lives to strut their female stuff in front of an audience if they want. Also, if someone is using obvious sexual body language and not understanding it then they are simply mimicking, not really expressing themselves though the dance.

I took dancing lessons from age 3 to age 12, my favorite was jazz dancing to 70s/disco hits like I Will Survive, I Feel The Earth Move, The Hustle ...things with a damn good beat and I didn't care a whole lot about the lyrics, just the fact that I knew a dance to a popular song. We wore all black leotards and shiny fringe skirts and I don't remember doing any stripperesque moves.
It's hard to make it as a professional dancer on Broadway but easy as a stripper--they don't need any enouragement in the latter.


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